Curse

Rofl_Pwnt · Aug 18, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baggers

Fair enough, the toucher I encountered must of just been scared by the amount of hex's

But still, halving the touchers healing is worth it.

All The More True, Cutting Touchers Health Really Affects them =/ Damn you SS!!! D:

QuixotesGhost · Aug 18, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

I couldn't find a life steal master on the Isle of the nameless so I couldn't test it... but:

Does Reversal of Fortune trigger on Lifesteal? That ~60 damage is right in RoFs sweet spot. If not, it's a sensible nerf to give RoF that property.

* Reversal of Fortune now triggers on life steal.

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I couldn't find a life steal master on the Isle of the nameless so I couldn't test it... but:

Does Reversal of Fortune trigger on Lifesteal? That ~60 damage is right in RoFs sweet spot. If not, it's a sensible nerf to give RoF that property.

* Reversal of Fortune now triggers on life steal.

No, it doesn't, and neither should it. The point of Life Stealing is that it cut's straight through any kind of Protection or other damage mitigating factors, it is a silly idea to start messing with game mechanics just to put a very mediocre nerf on Touch Rangers.

What should be done? Quite simple in my opinion. Zojun's Haste/Dodge currently end on attacking, which is why a large amount of Touch rangers use it currently, as they use skills as opposed to actual attacks. It is very usefull for them, to catch kiting foes, which would otherwise severely stunt their damage. Solution? Make the stance end on the use of a skill. This still makes it viable as a speed buff, just not at all for Touch Rangers.

Sol Deathgard · Aug 18, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

No, it doesn't, and neither should it. The point of Life Stealing is that it cut's straight through any kind of Protection or other damage mitigating factors, it is a silly idea to start messing with game mechanics just to put a very mediocre nerf on Touch Rangers.

What should be done? Quite simple in my opinion. Zojun's Haste/Dodge currently end on attacking, which is why a large amount of Touch rangers use it currently, as they use skills as opposed to actual attacks. It is very usefull for them, to catch kiting foes, which would otherwise severely stunt their damage. Solution? Make the stance end on the use of a skill. This still makes it viable as a speed buff, just not at all for Touch Rangers.

better solution... just use the counters that have been mentioned thousands of times in hundreds of threads and quit whining about them people. If you can't beat a touch ranger then you don't need to be pvping cause you obviously don't know what you are doing or can't read cause you aren't looking at your skills. (or you're too lazy to buy new ones cause your 1337 with the 8 skills you've used since you bought the game)

Warrior - Wild Blow on the stances. I don't know how many rangers have run from me after they lost their stance and I can hit them freely

Ranger - lay down some traps, the degen will kill them unless someone is stupid enough to come near a touch ranger with conditions on him.

Ele - AoE spells that affect the area around you, touchers can't heal fast enough through the dmg

Mesmer - Degen, Diversion, Blackout, Archane Thievery.

Necro - Wither Malase, and life degen

Monk - Smiting spells

Assassin - Return is a great skill, read what it does

I left out Rit cause I just made one and he's not ready to pvp yet, but I'm looking for possiblitys

Amy Awien · Aug 18, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

... Make the stance {Zojun's Haste/Dodge} end on the use of a skill.

Would also make them mostly unusable for every other Ranger. Bad idea.

Evilsod · Aug 18, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Solution? Make the stance end on the use of a skill. This still makes it viable as a speed buff, just not at all for Touch Rangers.

Anyone with a ranger would realise thats about as stupid an idea as nerfing Expertise.

SnipiousMax · Aug 18, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Would also make them mostly unusable for every other Ranger. Bad idea.

When have you ever used a skill while under dodge? They'd still serve the purpose they've been serving, a very fast speed buff to get out of nasty situations.

Evilsod · Aug 18, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

When have you ever used a skill while under dodge? They'd still serve the purpose they've been serving, a very fast speed buff to get out of nasty situations.

Troll Unguent? Healing Signet? Shields Up? Holy Veil? Mend Ailment? Purge Conditions? Heal Area? Healing Breeze? Shadow Form? Deaths Charge?

SnipiousMax · Aug 18, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Troll Unguent? Healing Signet? Shields Up? Holy Veil? Mend Ailment? Purge Conditions? Heal Area? Healing Breeze? Shadow Form? Deaths Charge?

Are you really going to stop for three seconds to cast troll ungent while using a skill with an already weak duration? Two seconds for Heal sig? Why use shields up when dodge is already a defense against ranged attacks? Condition removal... fair enough. Heal Area and breeze aren't effective on a Ranger primary anyway. Shadow Form and Deaths charge can't wait till the end of dodge?

Point is that having a skill cancel dodge is not the end of the world for a Ranger. It's not that big of a deal.

vapor311 · Aug 18, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

The biggest thing that I hope comes from all of the hype that touch rangers have generated is A-Net's look at what skills they decide to duplicate once Nightfall comes out. Arguably the biggest change that made touch rangers go from comical Random Arena builds to what they are now is having duplicate copies of Vamp Bite/Touch and Dodge/Zojuns.

While touch rangers have been around since the BWEs, in the past they had to make a decision between running Escape to stay with kiting opponents and Offering of Blood to keep their energy up. Now that they can have 2 copies of Dodge on the bar, they have no need to run Escape and can sustain themselves for significantly longer periods of time.
The same can be said of Vamp Touch, but to a lesser degree. Previously touchers would carry Vamp Touch + Touch of Agony. Touch of Agony is vastly inferior to Vampiric Touch for a toucher because of the lack of life stealing and health sacrifice. Now with 2 copies of Vamp Touch it can be repeatedly spammed due to it's short recharge.

While I can see the marketing advantages and time savings that duplicating skills provides, I hope that a small lesson is learned from Factions and that the skills that are duplicated in NightFall do not lead to another touch ranger situation.

Evilsod · Aug 18, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

It's not that big of a deal.

And neither are touch rangers. Yet the number of threads and people whining are making it into 1.

Amy Awien · Aug 19, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

When have you ever used a skill while under dodge? They'd still serve the purpose they've been serving, a very fast speed buff to get out of nasty situations.

Like maybe something to heal, like Trolls. Any skill cancelling Dodge reduces it to a pure running skill.

Now, stop nerfing ranger skills, you will always hurt other builds. If anything needs nerfing it would be the life-stealing touchskills that are the core of these touchy-builds.

I R Chewy · Aug 20, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

i understand your struggle. it's very frustrating to me, a ranger, when i'm shooting prey (heh, my target) and up comes a lil' toucher. It bores me even enough that i made a build designed for taking them OUT! i would share it, but i'm un-sure where to post it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

If anything needs nerfing it would be the life-stealing touchskills that are the core of these touchy-builds.

me and my brother came up with the idea of making the touch "Skills" into touch "spells". it would work like a charm.

Raginghellcat · Aug 21, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

i'm always using skills with dodge on. Dodge allows you to attack and not get interrupted by other archers. Dodge can sometimes be the only way to get troll up with all of the interrupts out there.

Nessaja · Aug 21, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by I R Chewy

me and my brother came up with the idea of making the touch "Skills" into touch "spells". it would work like a charm.

That would fix the touch rangers.. sure..

However, all the touch rangers would just become Cultist Fervor necromancers.. although... those might actually be pretty balanced, pretty much the same as rangers now just without all the stances.

ubermancer · Aug 21, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Wow... looks like most people here have never heard of Crippling Shot/Diversion/Blackout/Spiteful Spirit/Hex Snares/Energy Denial/basically the entire Water Magic line.

And I guess as long as people remain in the dark about those, my toucher will continue to get me Glad Points.

Cirian · Aug 21, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by I R Chewy

me and my brother came up with the idea of making the touch "Skills" into touch "spells". it would work like a charm.

Except at 15e, a Vampiric Touch "spell" would be utter junk next to Blood Drinker or Vampiric Gaze, which steal more life per energy point and are ranged.

The strength of Vampiric Touch, given the melee requirement and vast energy cost, is that it doesn't have the baggage that comes with spells and it has a very fast recycle. It used to have a 5s recycle, which was brought down to 2s, and then a duplicate was added, making it obscenely spammable. Aside from on a ranger, I wouldn't even dream of using such an energy hogging combo - on a necro I'd look at something like Shadow Strike -> Lifebane Strike -> Blood Drinker -> Plague Touch beefed up with Awaken the Blood instead.

The recycle on Vampiric Touch is the safest thing to meddle with if it comes down to it.

Evls Pwn · Aug 23, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Vampiric gaze is also counted as a "skill" which I think is complete bs. It stops a bunch of the Mesmer skills that would kill touchys from working. Also, since when has a glare that steals life from an opponent been listed as a "skill". It just seems counter-intuitive. If Anet fixed that one thing, nothing else on touchies would need to be nerfed. Btw- making a longer recycle time would completly kill the toucher build, which is not what I think everyone is after.

gasmaskman · Aug 23, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

Vampiric gaze is also counted as a "skill" which I think is complete bs. It stops a bunch of the Mesmer skills that would kill touchys from working. Also, since when has a glare that steals life from an opponent been listed as a "skill". It just seems counter-intuitive. If Anet fixed that one thing, nothing else on touchies would need to be nerfed. Btw- making a longer recycle time would completly kill the toucher build, which is not what I think everyone is after.

It's a spell. Check yourself.

Yakumo · Aug 23, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

The recycle on Vampiric Touch is the safest thing to meddle with if it comes down to it.

Although I do not believe a change is needed, I do however think this is the safest thing to do without effecting other skills/builds if a change is really required.

A slightly longer recharge shouldn't kill the build, it'll just make it slightly less 'effective' (for a lack of a better term).

I personally wouldn't spam those skills with my Necro due to the high energy cost, so unless others do, I can only see Touchies to be affected.